tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1651908162607091292.post239649414697031906..comments2024-01-05T01:21:21.702-08:00Comments on <center>SPECULUM CRITICUM TRADITIONIS</center>: Ancient hypertextskholiasthttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05410057905377189336noreply@blogger.comBlogger8125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1651908162607091292.post-22390335999505923472009-12-31T17:04:36.530-08:002009-12-31T17:04:36.530-08:00I suppose it depends upon what one expects from &#...I suppose it depends upon what one expects from 'unity'. Near the beginning of Plato's Republic Socrates gives us a description of a Just City, in which everyone minds their own business. It is categorically rejected by dear Glaucon as a 'city of pigs'. Now, Socrates nowhere agrees with this characterization but is 'forced' by the exceptions around him to build a Just City in speech that they will accept. After many detours we arrive in the City of the Philosopher-Kings. A City in which everyone (every class) 'minds its own business'. Thus I have been known to maintain that the history of philosophy can be regarded as the search for a 'City of Pigs' that the exceptions will accept. I suppose one could call it the 'unity of benign neglect'...<br /><br />But, of course, you are right. Nothing always endures. So any creation falls over time. The creation of unity is a bit like Sisyphus and his rock... But Camus says we can imagine that Sisyphus, at times, is happy. Perhaps we can say the same of the philosophers? You know I do not worry too much about the 'illusion' problem. All Cities are based on lies - whether lies about Unity or Particularity is quite besides the point. Races, Classes, Ethnicities, etc., are also, like Universalism, products of history. -That is, temporary arrangements on their way to becoming something else. Universalism and the various Particularities are all myths, formed in this ridiculously lethal history of ours. The question is - which myth is most useful for human flourishing at a given time?<br /><br />Yes, the people really did get dragged into the Civil War between exceptions. But before this civil war, before the rise of the City, there was something quite close to unity in those tiny primitive societies. The 64 dollar question is whether we will ever see anything like it again. If we do, it will certainly only be temporary... You said that, "Peoples are collections of unexceptional individuals who are bound together by some common interest." Isn't that unity? The universalist search is the attempt to find (or, if you prefer, manufacture) the 'common interest' of all.<br /><br />The Philosophers are separated from the exceptions by their acceptance of responsibility for the human whole and their moderation. Exceptions, on the contrary, only think of themselves; their glory and dignity. Nietzsche begs the exceptions to laugh at themselves (Zarathustra, fourth part, On the Higher Man). In the second chapter of Beyond Good and Evil Nietzsche warns the exceptions away from (1.) their narcissistic self-obsession and (2.) their wretched hysteria:<br /><br />1. '...he was not made, he was not predestined, for knowledge. If he were, he would one day have to say to himself, “The devil take my good taste! but the rule is more interesting than the exception—than myself, the exception!” And he would go down, and above all, he would go “inside.”'<br /><br />2. "...no one lies as much as the indignant do." (BGE, The Free Spirit, Section 26, Kaufmann translation.)<br /><br />Have the exceptions learned to laugh? Have they stopped obsessing over themselves? Have they overcome indignation?<br /><br />No, there are no philosophers governing nor will there ever be. Philosophers have far better things to do with their time than governing. They can think! - That is more than enough. If the exceptions didn't exist philosophers would've been forced to invent them...<br /><br />JoeJoe Pomonomohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15799366948466532024noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1651908162607091292.post-42037962675479856222009-12-31T13:55:41.970-08:002009-12-31T13:55:41.970-08:00Thank you Joe, that is a very interesting discussi...Thank you Joe, that is a very interesting discussion.<br /><br />What would a couple philosophers ever have to say to each other? Seems a very Zenny question. Maybe they'd sit quietly together or nod and move on.<br /><br />Do you really think the "people" capable of unity? I defer to your history of the idea, but I wonder if there is any underlying reality to it. I'm an American so, frankly, I've never belonged to a "people". In my imagination the idea of a "people" summons a pre-historical or even pre-language memory. Creating the illusion of a "people" seems like something out of the third Reich.<br /><br />I see the exceptions as classes of warring elites. But aren't the peoples merely extensions of individual power? What the Romans would call Familia. Peoples are collections of unexceptional individuals who are bound together by some common interest.<br /><br />And the philosophers? Are they qualitatively different than the exceptions? Your answer, Universalism seem right on. Philosophers are elites who have adopted a universal interest instead of a private one.<br /><br />I read your review on Amazon. I also noticed you've got a ton of them. I take you as a genuine scholar. A fitting friend for Skholiast. In sticking with the Nietzschian vocabulary I'd have to say I'm more like one of the new barbarians.<br /><br />I wonder how you see this schemata of philosopher/elites/people playing out in the current world. Are there any philosophers governing the world today? Any true monarchs? I'd love to hear your thoughts.dy0geneshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12265699357881251867noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1651908162607091292.post-59055330862906234112009-12-31T02:42:31.664-08:002009-12-31T02:42:31.664-08:00The German was translated (by Mencken) as follows:...The German was translated (by Mencken) as follows:<br /><br />The anarchist and the Christian have the same ancestry. A, 57<br /><br />Nihilist and Christian: they rhyme in German, and they do more than rhyme.... A, 58<br /><br />There are different translations, but this is what I found on the internet.<br /><br />At this point I would initiate a discussion of esotericism. Our friend skholiast tells me he intends to do so and, on his blog, I defer to his discretion. Instead of this discussion I will just say that the philosophers dividing the world between philosophers, exception, and herd is a very old song. See Machiavelli, in the Prince, where he says:<br /><br />"Because there are three classes of intellects: one which comprehends by itself;<br />another which appreciates what others comprehended; and a third which<br />neither comprehends by itself nor by the showing of others; the first<br />is the most excellent, the second is good, the third is useless." Prince, ch. 22.<br /><br />(Again, this is a translation I found on the internet -my typing skills are abysmal- always check several translations if one cannot read the original language.)<br /><br />Also, see Averroes' "The Decisive Treatise" in passing. This is an astounding work in which he divides humanity into three groups: "People of Demonstration", "People of Dialectic", and the "People of Rhetoric". If you are interested I have reviewed it at Amazon.<br /><br />Now, Plato largely limited himself to speaking to (and, I would argue, of) the exceptions. This is because he (obviously) lived before the rise of the "Platonisms for the People" and the appearance of the herd in history as an effective (semi-)self-conscious force. (Its appearance is the consequence of the Universalism of all Platonisms.) Again, Plato only speaks of (and to) exceptions. Indeed, when two philosophers (Eleatic Stranger, Socrates) actually appear in the dialogues (Sophist, Statesman) they barely speak to each other! Indeed, Plato seems to promise a discussion of the Philosopher to follow the "Sophist", and the "Statesman" (Stranger, 257 a - 258 b), but of course, no such dialogue ever appeared. Was it only between Socrates and the Stranger? Perhaps Philosophy never speaks publicly of itself? <br /><br />But, how did the exceptions allow the ordinary people to arise? Nietzsche, in the Genealogy of Morals, remarks (something to the effect) that the division between two 'classes' of exceptions (priest - warrior) was the first fight. The priests (and/or theologians) who administered the first "Platonisms for the People" (Christianity, Islam), used the herd to 'win' their age-old battle with the warriors.<br /><br />Well, enough of this thumbnail sketch of the history of philosophical psychology, the division of humanity into several types. In closing, some observations. It seems that, according to this psychology, the Philosopher and the herd are types that are capable of some unity. But the exceptions are in a perpetual civil war. No? In reading the Prince note how little appreciation, in general, Machiavelli has for the factions of the nobility (and priests). There are fundamentally only two possible sovereigns in Machiavelli: the Prince or the People. (In the 'Discourses' we see what Machiavelli means by a 'People'.) Also, do note Averroes' smoldering contempt for the 'People of Dialectic' in the "Decisive Treatise". Every division and heresy rises thanks to them!<br /><br />One last observation. The great certainty that the exceptions have always had that the philosophers are somehow 'with' them would seem to be an exaggeration. It has been famously said that diplomacy is the art of saying nice doggie while searching for a very big stick. Now, what would be the big stick of the philosophers?<br /><br />Universalism...Joe Pomonomohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15799366948466532024noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1651908162607091292.post-45726743201213989252009-12-30T19:25:28.227-08:002009-12-30T19:25:28.227-08:00Joe,
Not a reader of German but I've read eno...Joe,<br /><br />Not a reader of German but I've read enough Nietzsche to follow your point.<br /><br />With great love and admiration I declare that Nietzsche was a freak. But I don't identify him with his thoughts. I think his philosophy lives on even among the frogs. Perhaps it is true that the creators of philosophy are always radically unusual kinds of people, but the philosophy they create has a life of its own. I'm no Nietzsche and I'm no Mozart or Bach either, but I can still try to understand and play with their works.<br /><br />Any reader of Nietzsche becomes accustomed to raising an eyebrow now and then and shaking ones head. That doesn't diminish the fact that he contributed greatly to the philosophical tradition. If I may hazard a definition I would say that tradition is mostly about establishing a space, perhaps an arena, where we are allowed to look at the whole as separate, as something we can dissect and take its measure. From Plato's cave to Nietzche's critique of morality and religion the process has been to drive back the shadows and dispell for us the illusions and prejudices that have held us enthrawled. The result is clarity of thought and purpose. The distillate a set of tools useful in any human situation.<br /><br />I for one have a wife and kids and a career and snow to remove from my driveway. I've very glad that I am not a philosopher in the greater sense. But I truely love philosophy and am sure that whether it's being a husband or a parent or a clinician or a snow shoveler, I do it all better because of philosophy.<br /><br />dy0genesdy0geneshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12265699357881251867noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1651908162607091292.post-69480113553078656192009-12-30T15:16:43.135-08:002009-12-30T15:16:43.135-08:00I like very much what you say about the importance...I like very much what you say about the importance of others for philosophy. Let us not forget that just yesterday Freud discovered in the individual only Death. The necessity of the other for thought and love has long been noted. The problem, for me, is that the philosophers are radically separate from all others, ...from all possible others.<br /> <br />I mean even their closest possible other - the mystics. The Mystic and the Philosopher both strive to understand (and even love) the Whole. But the Mystic loves unconditionally; this also means without suspicion. The Philosopher is suspicious of the Whole; oh, he loves - but he loves differently.<br /><br />Even the Mystic when he is devoid of human contact, he is intimately relating himself to the Whole. I deny that there is ever such intimacy with the genuine philosophers. - Not between them and their followers (or readers) and not between them and the Whole.<br /><br />Now, do the Philosophers comport themselves as you say they do? Certainly. I do not deny it. But comportment is always to be found among the practical things...<br /><br />Also, note that people will argue against you that it is thought that, among the moderns at least, Nietzsche is most certainly an individualist. This is incorrect. In BGE (Section 27) he compares the philosopher to the river and the exceptions and herd to the frogs and turtles that are sustained by the river. Read section 28 on tempo; the impossibility of translating tempo. Nietzsche is still here speaking of (among other things) the difference between philosophers, exception and herd. Although, of course, he dare not say it. Thus he is reduced to speaking of individuals, culture and national groups.<br /> <br />And in the Antichrist, he will let us know exactly what he resents most in Christianity:<br /><br />Der Anarchist und der Christ sind Einer Herkunft... Nietzsche, Antichrist, 57<br /><br />Nihilist und Christ: das reimt sich, das reimt sich nicht bloss... Nietzsche, Antichrist, 58<br /><br />What he opposes above all is its "Individualism"! Only the philosophers can (be trusted to) be ever truly alone.<br /><br />JoeJoe Pomonomohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15799366948466532024noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1651908162607091292.post-73361483235249810572009-12-29T18:18:26.321-08:002009-12-29T18:18:26.321-08:00No it was the size, not reading on my own machine ...No it was the size, not reading on my own machine so I was straining a bit. The handicapable letter size is much appreciated.<br /><br />This should be a very interesting experiment. I think you are right that philosophy is a discipline of thinking that makes clear communication possible. When we understand the others perspective, then the ground is set for a creative dialogue. That creativity can happen in any field but the underlying discipline, philosophy, is the keystone that holds it together.dy0geneshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12265699357881251867noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1651908162607091292.post-49829365232279536102009-12-29T16:07:00.449-08:002009-12-29T16:07:00.449-08:00I would say there's at least two of us, dy0gen...I would say there's at least two of us, dy0genes. The font is what it is because my posts so far are long. (I assume you are speaking of the size; if it's something else, you must be less riddling). I will be experimenting with different settings on this front. You can also always adjust your text size on your browser, too.skholiasthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05410057905377189336noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1651908162607091292.post-40778624682500653692009-12-29T09:47:54.855-08:002009-12-29T09:47:54.855-08:00Okay, what's up with the font? I'm sure I&...Okay, what's up with the font? I'm sure I'm not the only over 40 crusty old philosoph.dy0geneshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12265699357881251867noreply@blogger.com